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emma_in_dreamI watched *The Force Awakens* and I love it. However, I am confused about Storm Troopers, probably due to not paying proper attention to the dud movies 1-3.
My own theory is that Storm Troopers in 4-6 were under Force control, thus explaining their extreme incompetence when left alone. They are kind of ambling about, under a fog of brain washing. The green-clad Army guys in 4-6 seem like an officer class, left to make decisions without Force control. Which would make sense, because they would be the remnant of career military left from before the Empire overtook the Republic. (Just to lose the internet competition, like the career military who continued under Hitler.)
But there may well be something to contradict this in movies 1-3 because I only saw them the once and then tried to scrub them from my mind. I remember something about clones? And a massacre perpetrated by brain washed Storm Troopers? Could someone explain it to me?
Cut for spoilers
And where do Storm Troopers come from in 7? I get that in 4-6 the Empire can amass clones or hire troopers with the taxes it gets from controlling all those plants. But where are the Storm Troopers coming from in 7?
Are they clones? There was some mention of child kidnapping – is that how they get them? A very expensive way to get troops as you would have years of training before they were old enough to be useful. OTOH: you would have lots of time to indoctrinate them. Has the First Order got access to some secret bank account that the Empire set up which they use to fund buying and training Storm Troopers and building planet sized weapons?
All this is my way of leading to the question of the extent to which Storm Troopers act through free will and the extent to which they are Force controlled.
Arguments for Force control: Their bumbling slowness when not under orders.
Possibly I saw a scene of a massacre in one of the earlier movies which stemmed from the use of some brain washing? Possibly I imagined this?
It is hard to imagine why anyone would join/stay with an organisation which does not value their lives at all – Force control of troops enlisted for other reasons makes more sense. Like maybe joining the Storm Troopers was a great way to travel the galaxy and let you do interesting work in fighting natural disasters on far flung planets and then the Republic fell and suddenly instead you are a brainwashed minion of evil. Surely this is easier to imagine than that people sign up to join an organisation which offers them nothing in return?
Arguments for free will: People join armies all the time, and once in most people are motivated more by loyalty to their mates than to the big picture. Or maybe their bumbling slowness is a deliberate ploy as they try desperately to let the Rebellion win. Maybe they are sabotaging the First Order and Empire from within! Like, la la la la, no need to have guards on this thermal vent, whoops, I was looking the wrong way, oh no, the Rebels win.
It would be difficult to Force control so many people at the same time.
Finn decides not to participate in the massacre.
Finn attacks other Storm Troopers later in 7, suggesting he sees them as people who have made a decision to do bad things rather than as fellow victims of brainwashing who need to be rescued.
Also, those two Storm Troopers who saw whatshisname having a tantrum just tiptoed away, so they definitely weren’t mindlessly following orders.
Please people, I need more information to make any kind of sense of the ethical universe of Star Wars.
My own theory is that Storm Troopers in 4-6 were under Force control, thus explaining their extreme incompetence when left alone. They are kind of ambling about, under a fog of brain washing. The green-clad Army guys in 4-6 seem like an officer class, left to make decisions without Force control. Which would make sense, because they would be the remnant of career military left from before the Empire overtook the Republic. (Just to lose the internet competition, like the career military who continued under Hitler.)
But there may well be something to contradict this in movies 1-3 because I only saw them the once and then tried to scrub them from my mind. I remember something about clones? And a massacre perpetrated by brain washed Storm Troopers? Could someone explain it to me?
Cut for spoilers
And where do Storm Troopers come from in 7? I get that in 4-6 the Empire can amass clones or hire troopers with the taxes it gets from controlling all those plants. But where are the Storm Troopers coming from in 7?
Are they clones? There was some mention of child kidnapping – is that how they get them? A very expensive way to get troops as you would have years of training before they were old enough to be useful. OTOH: you would have lots of time to indoctrinate them. Has the First Order got access to some secret bank account that the Empire set up which they use to fund buying and training Storm Troopers and building planet sized weapons?
All this is my way of leading to the question of the extent to which Storm Troopers act through free will and the extent to which they are Force controlled.
Arguments for Force control: Their bumbling slowness when not under orders.
Possibly I saw a scene of a massacre in one of the earlier movies which stemmed from the use of some brain washing? Possibly I imagined this?
It is hard to imagine why anyone would join/stay with an organisation which does not value their lives at all – Force control of troops enlisted for other reasons makes more sense. Like maybe joining the Storm Troopers was a great way to travel the galaxy and let you do interesting work in fighting natural disasters on far flung planets and then the Republic fell and suddenly instead you are a brainwashed minion of evil. Surely this is easier to imagine than that people sign up to join an organisation which offers them nothing in return?
Arguments for free will: People join armies all the time, and once in most people are motivated more by loyalty to their mates than to the big picture. Or maybe their bumbling slowness is a deliberate ploy as they try desperately to let the Rebellion win. Maybe they are sabotaging the First Order and Empire from within! Like, la la la la, no need to have guards on this thermal vent, whoops, I was looking the wrong way, oh no, the Rebels win.
It would be difficult to Force control so many people at the same time.
Finn decides not to participate in the massacre.
Finn attacks other Storm Troopers later in 7, suggesting he sees them as people who have made a decision to do bad things rather than as fellow victims of brainwashing who need to be rescued.
Also, those two Storm Troopers who saw whatshisname having a tantrum just tiptoed away, so they definitely weren’t mindlessly following orders.
Please people, I need more information to make any kind of sense of the ethical universe of Star Wars.
no subject
Date: 2016-01-04 01:33 pm (UTC)Eps 2,3: All clones. Not brainwashed per se, but there was a chip in their head which could control them under specific circumstances, and was used to make them turn on the Jedi in episode 3.
Between ep 3 and 4: No more clones made, as the existing clones age and die they are replaced by volunteers and conscripts.
Eps 4-6: Almost no clones left. Pretty much all volunteers and conscripts.
Between 6 and 7: Empire collapses. First Order takes over stormtroopers. Fill their ranks with stolen and indoctrinated children, I guess because they no longer have the popularity or authority for other methods. I don't think it's force control, not enough Sith to do it! But possibly some other sort of brainwashing, there was something about Finn being sent for reeducation.
no subject
Date: 2016-01-05 09:30 am (UTC)You'd think the Rebels would just try persuasion then. Like, our side won't leave you on a planet and then blow it up, come to us!
no subject
Date: 2016-01-07 09:36 am (UTC)Maybe that's the point of all thrse deathstars: shift the "your planet will be blown up" odds in the Dark Side's favour :)